queer-as-used-by-tolkien

I totally agree with this - characters DO do bad things, thats what makes the conflict, that’s what gives them the potential for growth and character arcs, that’s what enables complex character interactions! Without that, stories are bland and awful.

Saying ‘this character is bad unless they apologize/do better’ or that 'you can’t like this character bc Bad Things’ - that’s incredibly shallow. Braham’s 'bad’ moments in S3 were awesome. His comments hurt my Commander, poked her deepest insecurities, emphasized even more the awesome juicy conflict she was already dealing with in that story arc. I like that.

Caithe’s role in HoT did similar things - the theme was that really, we don’t know who we can trust. Her actions emphasized that point, and they ALSO showed within the Commander how all the suspicion was taking a toll, and how the Commander reacted to that pressure.

All good stuff, juicy stuff that contributes to the story and the arc and the message! All important! All good characters that are okay to like despite the bad.

I think 'liking’ a character is a nebulous term anyway! I like this one as a person, they are a good person! Or I like that one as a person because they had a complex growth arc! Or I like that one as a villain because he did evil things and I love hating him. Or I like this one as a character because of their growth, although not necessarily as a person I’d hang out with. Or I like this one as a role model. And I think all these have to be considered when someone says 'I like X.’

Its not wrong to say 'this character did bad things and they are interestingly complex to me = I like them’, but it is a vastly different message from 'character did certain things and I think those are good things that good people should do and be liked for, so I like this character’ which I feel is how a lot of people interpret 'I like X’ and is supposedly problematic if the character actually did BAD things and not good ones. But that’s incredibly wonky and I don’t think anybody actually thinks or means that. That’s maybe what it would mean if you said that about a real person, but real people are vastly different from fictional people.

Now you mention atoning, though, which I think is pretty important. You can’t have character growth if you go on doing the same things for the same reasons and never changing. Character relationships grow and change and evolve from apologies and treating each other better.

Of course some characters are villains and keep choosing bad and problematic and generating conflict, and those characters can be great as well and they can still be liked! I LOVE Bangar as a character although of course I hate his guts when I’m PoV: Commander. The story was made much better by him and I love his role. I don’t want him to change, I want revenge without the added complexity of him suddenly deciding he wants to change and atone. His character is best the way it is. He wouldn’t be himself if he changed.

But I think it’s great Caithe and the Commander resolved their differences in S3. I really like how Braham’s character grew in S4 past his grief. I really like the things Rytlock had to struggle with and I think having to kill his son was hard for him but also something he had to do - he grew from that.

I also like investigating where a character is coming from, their motivations and perspectives and the history that informs that. Them being other people from me gives me the opportunity to learn about them, and I think that’s beautiful and also good character and story design.

TL;DR I love these characters. Character growth requires the characters not be perfect right away. Atoning is pretty cool but not necessary. I love GW2 and obsessing about characters, the good, the bad, the ugly and the evil.

  ohifonlyx33

As a homeschooler, I've never related to the "mispronounced words that I only read in my head" phenomenon. I always pronounced everything correctly. I was the kid who looked forward to reading Old Testament place names outloud in Sunday School because I knew I would get them mostly right.

  soundlessdragon

I mispronounced lots of English things in my head but was always confident about OT names because fr who's gonna know? Nobody's gonna know any better so I can phoeneticize it however I want

  queer-as-used-by-tolkien

Oddly enough, I do struggle with pronouncing things. I always pronounce them confidently until someone tells me otherwise though. and then I get mad at them lol.

Old Testament names, though, I’m always confident about, because my Bible comes with accent marks and I read it enough to have figured out what they mean. (Alao whenever I see there’s Bible reading, I read ahead before it’s assigned, pick the passage I want to read, and ask for it. Having already read it to myself, I am far more at ease and confident about the reading - no getting confused bc the sentence went on another line, etc.)

As for the really big book to bring on vacation- oh yes, I did this all the time XDD… even multiple big books lol. I have a superpower of being able to read in the car without getting sick, so on multi-day drives I am allll set.

  queer-as-used-by-tolkien

I try to come up with a way to say it. Out loud, online chat, in a Tumblr comment or reblog, in a comment on the fic or art or music, etc.

A lot of the time they don’t believe me but I’m sure it gets to them :)

  bluebudgie

Reblogging since it is now the appropriate season in the northern hemisphere.